Well, I've never been a fan of that character—any version of her. I'd much rather she not be written into a story, much less if she is mainly to be another character's love interest. If you've already read my comments on that thread, you'd see that I'd rewrite pretty much everything after season 2 anyway.
I can agree on the rewriting.
Don't worry,the rewritten Mona isn't a love interest immediately.
She has a story, a distrust that lasts longer with the turtles, until she proves she can be trusted and it can be taken two ways. Either as the Mona instead of who we saw already, or both meet, but the one we saw from the show doesn't stay.
I can sort of understand that. A steady love interest can either be overdone or neglected, and a love interest written with balance is a rare thing. Things like this are specially true on TV shows with many rotating writers, constantly shifting showrunning priorities, and a pressure to reinvent the show (and retcon stuff) about every two years relying on the target audience to forget everything that happened before then.
Yes, I think the reason is because, the writers or whoever gives what they think the audience wants and probably think that once they get it, there's no need to further the story, which, if that's true, is sad, because then especially if the characters suddenly become infatuated, its made to look like love, when it isn't, because you don't love someone immediately. You get attracted and more feelings can build.
Since the feelings get rushed, the "get to know you" part seems to have been forgotten and all that's cared about is the romance. That doesn't sound like a stable relationship of any kind, because once troubles hit, how are they going to face them, when they'll be upset and may accidentally fight or feel attracted?
Even if somehow they still manage to be okay, without much getting to learn more about each other, its like, what's really happening.
When the feelings change or go, what then?
Besides that, it may get dull eventually, doing the same things, without trying to build memories in other ways.
Not sure how to respond. Anything I would think of saying would involve reviewing past show developments I find far too grating to dwell on. But in general, at the moment, I think you're probably right.
It's just, there are a lot of things the show has done so badly, that it's not always easy to think of how they can be done right after seeing them go so wrong. I actually thought April and Donatello were handled relatively well during the first two seasons and the North Hampton arc with how gradually the chemistry and dynamic between the two was developed, but that love triangle with Casey got really old, really fast. And the show's versions of Renet and Mona Lisa were introduced from the beginning primarily for fanservice, which preempted any good independent character development they could have had—and Renet (Comics) is actually a fairly well-developed character in her own right even without a scripted love interest. There came a point when it got so bad I completely stopped watching. I haven't even seen most of season 4, and didn't watch any of season 5.
So I have good reason to rewind the clock back to the end of season 2 before I would write onward. Before then, the show was engaging and had lots of good banter between the characters that developed their personalities in subtle ways. Afterwards, the show was wooden, tedious and uncomfortable. And the later on it is, the less I really want to dwell on it.
I don't understand why Renet was a love interest. Maybe there was more in the comic to explain, but in the 2003 series, she didn't like anyone and no one liked her romantically, so why did Nickelodeon make Mikey like her?
In my opinion, even if someone was a love interest before or a potential one, that doesn't mean they need to be for the show to get ratings or continue. I can think of ways that they could've gone instead. Once they gave Raph and Mikey love interests and had them seem to be liked back from their debuts, I felt they rushed them and it was only done to get the shippers happy, though perhaps they also did it because they wanted fans to stop asking about Mona coming. I read that one of the writers didn't like her, so my guess is, they did what they did, to get the fans to stop messaging, asking them.
Then later I heard that they claimed she returned to space before the mutant apocalypse arc. She said she was staying, so the writers saying this, could mean, that there was probably an alternate ending planned and since season 5 was shown sometimes out of order or it was confusing, it'd make sense, as she never comes back in later season 5.
What also bugged me, was that Raph acted out of character around her. He liked her only because of a punch her said felt nice. The girl tried to kill him and his family and he's infatuated?
Normally, if anyone was a threat, he wouldn't be attracted, he would fight. He'd be suspicious, like how he was, when Leo liked Karai.
I had this thought, that since in some movies, there are bloopers and seeing behind the scenes with acting and since some characters get blooper scenes, like they're acting, I thought, if this was like that, Raph and Mona would probably be so glad when the episodes ended.
I didn't mind Leo or Donnie's crushes, until they were hurt by them, but I felt that when Nickelodeon has Raph get betrayed and that he and Mona never talk about it that that was a missed opportunity to develop more character for both, as Raph might learn a little more of Mona's intentions and if she told him why, then she'd be being honest with him, besides apologizing and saying she loves him.
I don't know for every couple, but sometimes when someone does something wrong, then says they're sorry, then says they love you, it sounds more like what they'd say now, but once you forgive them, sometimes they hurt you again and its like, sometimes the word "love" might be used to get you to give in.
The way I see it, Raph and Mikey's ships are more, "lust" or "infatuation" than loving, since they never spend enough time to talk with the girls properly, like to get to know what they like besides what they know, to chat, when there isn't any danger.
Leo and Donnie atleast had more time and some conflict to ponder about the girls and Donnie even gets some advice from Master Splinter.
I was wondering if Raph would get advice when he was hallucinating, but also advice about Mona, but he didn't mention her to Master Splinter.
I even saw in his wiki once that,
"Despite his romantic feelings for her, he has issues with her, as shown in Insecta Trifecta."
That's what I recall.
That's the episode he has hallucinations about his fear.
I felt that when he hallucinated, it was not only because he was fearful, but because when he was betrayed, this could like a relapse.
I believe somewhere he was still hurting, even if he forgave Mona, otherwise, why would the wiki say that, though its possible a wiki could be wrong, why would she be in his hallucinations?
Then season 3 with the horror referenced episodes. I don't know why they allowed that, even near Halloween. Those episodes,some showed at night and they were scary enough as is.
Why couldn't they take a little more reference to the 2003 or comics?
Speaking of ratings, I heard that the ratings were low and then I read online in the comments of the episodes when Mona came back to season 5, that the arc she was in was the lowest rating in the show and that some of the staff didn't like this arc.
Probably won't surprise you to know some people hate her, which might be ironic, as some fans asked for her, you'd think people like what they got, but even some RaMona shippers don't like what Nickelodeon has done and I even saw some anti shippers on a different sight. Some people ship her with Newtralizer too.
If ratings were dropping and they decided to listen to some of what the fans had said, why could't they have asked what ideas for plots fans might have, to show they care about what would interest the fans, or get more references and ideas from the comics, 2003 series?
I think they tried too hard to please for the ships and the writing to get all the action, but not explaining any answers to some mysteries, like Casey's family, April's aunt, the mutants who were alive after battles, but the turtles don't know.
With all the mysteries left behind, they could make new plotlines and further the show if they chose. Sure most of the villains are gone, but I still think Dregg and Newtralizer could return again, because even though they seemed gone, Dregg was revealed to have a robot version of himself when Raph managed to get off his head. Not only that, but more than once he looked like he was gone, but he kept returning, so I think he actually has robotic clones, who do the danger for him, so nothing happens to him.
Newtralizer can teleport and I think last minute again, he could've gotten away, but no one knows because no one saw.
Okay, that was a rather long this time. And you're right—Raph was way out of character. This show's versions of Renet and Mona were introduced purely for fanservice, and they did derail the characters they were written as love interests for. Even Renet's reference drawing showed Mikey gawking at her. And true to form, most of her personality was in her D-cup. It was basically the TV-Y7 equivalent of soft porn, with plot and character sacrificed to enable it.
And it actually hurt Raph's credibility as a character more than you may realize. It wasn't just out-of-character for him in some ways. It also sacrificed a building character trait that was shown repeatedly earlier in the series (click that link to see lots of animated GIFs I made and some character commentary). To the extent that TV-Y7 allowed, Raph seemed really, really gay—and actually pretty realistically so, rather than as any kind of blatant stereotype. Not only that, but when you add April and/or Karai to a situation, Raph's personality would have more in common with them than it had with his brothers. And really, if you're a gay guy in the audience, there were times when you couldn't ask for a better audience surrogate than Raph. He was never necessarily going to say "I am gay" (even Steven Universe characters never need to do that), but he was extremely relatable, and it could make that portion of the audience feel like they weren't so invisible, especially during episodes like Slash and Destroy.
That said, it wasn't just Mona Lisa that derailed his character. Beginning sometime early in season 3, his character went from being one of the most fun and interesting characters, to being one of the most bland and wooden. He couldn't even get angry in a believable way anymore, because the show had stopped realistically portraying his angst and ennui, so his moments of apparent anger seemed more artificial. Heck, before The Moon of Thalos 3, his worst episode to me was actually Dinosaur Seen in Sewers, where he came off as a total jerk without a sympathetic angle, such that his pleas with Zog at the end seemed rather insincere.
I once compiled my own collection of video clips, sort of a "best of Raphael." 50 minutes from season 1. 35 minutes from season 2. ...5 minutes from season 3. They'd already stopped trying with him well before season 4. They really stopped trying with all the characters. The writers just didn't seem to care anymore, so by the time they started piling on cheap fanservice, it was insult to an already existing injury.
I never thought of him being so relatable in that way, but it must feel good to be able to relate, especially with a tv character who's supposed to be likeable. That's what I would've liked to see more in the girls as well. I had the impression that the girls were being used in the show mainly for the romance, as besides that, yes they help the turtles, but its like, only April and Karai get more focus on their family history and their struggles with their problems. Mona and Renet felt like more girls who can fight and impress the boys, (I was wondering what you meant by d cup, but I understand now. I never noticed them in the show actually. I was more focused on how Mikey was being treated and how he acted.) and while there are struggles, theirs didn't have as big an impact as April dealing with her father being captive and how kind the turtles were to help. Karai being their enemy and then ally later, even family moments like hugging Master Splinter.
Yes, lots of good moments, and yes, well-developed positive visibility is important, both for gay people and for women.
And mind you, my criticism of Renet was not that she had a D-cup—it's that it seemed to be the nexus of her personality, or at least how they expected the audience to connect to her. When a story fails to develop a character in any appreciable way beyond their use as fanservice, then they're not characters—they're inflatable dolls. That said, it is still possible for a character to be attractive to someone and still be, you know, a character. It takes effort on the part of the writers.
Yes, I didn't mean the d cup in a because she had one, I meant I never noticed it like that, it didn't matter to me, but yes, I see what you mean.
I was wondering what more is there to the love interests once that reason has been fulfilled? What else are they supposed to do, to go from?
I remembered reading that the writers changed, but I don't know how true that is.
Oh yeah, that's right, before it finished, I read that there were comments about it being switched to NickToons.
Its sad though, with a little more attention, like season 1, they could've made it great, the rest of the series I mean.
In two seasons, they were trying to find their audience. Afterwards, they were certainly under pressure to turn a higher profit at lower cost, and focus primarily on their most core established audiences. The 2014 film certainly showed how this could be done strictly by formula—no soul required.
That's why they did the series as they did?
I thought they intended it to be for children, since Nickelodeon has children tv series on it, though I think some of their scenes are more mature. That could explain some of the scenes in the series.
I don't understand though.
Yeah, that's complicated. It was supposed to be primarily for children, but it became a magnet for a lot of now-adult fans of the 1987 TV series. Now, though there are TMNT works for adults, there's now two kinds of adult TMNT fans:
TMNT fans who like TMNT as adults for adult reasons, much like the original comics readers.
TMNT fans who became fans as children and are now chasing their childhood nostalgia.
In the end, the 2012 TV series (and the more recent films) ended up pandering to that second adult audience. The show was no longer all that kid-friendly, but it was still far too bubble gum for most serious TMNT comics readers. I mean, I don't mind TMNT works being more accessible to different age groups, but that second group of adult TMNT fans has earned an established reputation for their TMNT interests not really maturing with age...though they're still adults, and few things are easier and cheaper to pander to adult audiences than sex, but that doesn't technically require maturity to be marketable.
Me? I'm more of the first kind of adult TMNT fan—my primary interest for decades has been Mirage TMNT. I dared like the 2012 TV series, at least earlier on, because it actually overlapped with the same kind of interests I've long had as a TMNT adult comics reader. Serious stories, depth of character and plot, and at least a veneer of a coming-of-age story. But it's impossible to come of age when the characters and writers aren't allowed to grow up—there's too many lucrative toys to market to 7-year-olds, after all.
The adult comics were never super-profitable by comparison, but they actually treated their audience like adults with adult experiences, adult priorities, adult lives, etc. (Well, mostly. They still seem to anticipate teenagers in the audience.)
That team-up had some interesting character development moments for the two of them. Certainly made Xever a more interesting character with a bit more depth. Did you ever get the impression that Xever expected Raph to catch the object he threw at the back of his head?
Yes, on both. It was good seeing some story to Xever and since he knows the turtles are skilled, I believe he expected Raphael to catch that sliky ball weapon. A reminder of their villain hero relationship and watch your back message.
I still don't know much about IDW but, as you know, i like its style and drawings; and they seem to respect the art style of their correspondents (for example, the case of Amazing Adventures). This in new and I feel it worthy to be given an opportunity, definitely.
Hello Gilgameshkun, I think you are a knowledgeable TMNT fan. I wanna ask you a question. It's about TMNT's Strength. Do you think one of ninja turtles example:Raphael, can lift 700 Ib ? Because I think Raphael should can lift 700 Ib. To me, most of comic characters can lift 700 Ib so Raphael should can lift 700 Ib too. You can answer any versions of ninja turtles. TV Series, Comics it doesn't matter. Thank you in advance.
Any version, right? Well, in Palladium TMNT, Raphael's P.S. (Physical Strength) score is 20, and characters with a P.S. of 20 to 23 can carry 30 times their P.S. and lift 60 times their P.S., which would mean Raph can carry up to 600 pounds and lift up to 1200 pounds. So, for 700 pounds...lifting, yes, carrying, no.
Yo I was looking at your profile, and I saw that warning logo saying "Hey Kid You're A Long Way From Nicktoons!" which is hilarious, but its true TMNT at first was meant for adults, and is even still written that way with the IDW comics! The only reason why the shows compared to the comics are so child friendly (this is the same for the '87 show and Eastman HAS SAID THIS HIMSELF), When Eastman and Liard was approched by a TV Producer in the 1980's ('86 I think I don't remember the ACCTUAL date they where approched to pardon my estimation if its wrong!) and when Eastman and Liard accepted the offer for a show they know going into it that they would have FULL CONTROL as they owned the Copyright to the TMNT at the time! Besides the TV Producer wanting them to target a younger audience with the show Easman and Liard agreed and began working on the show and even added stuff like colored bandanas! So even though you think the shows do not follow that template that Mirage has set, but they have their own template Mirage started in the '80s with the original cartoon when they owned the copyright! Plus when Viacom bought the copyright in 2009 (this year I know at the back of my head!) they knew there where MUCH older shellheads in the fandom so when the 2012 show started they wanted to make everything "As Cannon As Possible" to please the older shellheads while also brinning in a younger audience to the Turtle Franchise! Even when the 2012 show meets its demise after the 5th season (Like it was planned to since they started the series!) Viacom/Nickelodeon PROMICED a relaunch in 2018 basicly just to please both the young and older members of the turtle fandom, as many younger and older turtle fans loved the 2012 series! We don't know what Viacom/Nickelodeon plans to do with the 2018 series, but chances are they are still going to keep it "As Cannon As Possible" to the Mirage Comic like they did with the 2012 show! They also utilized many elements from all the previous turtle universes in the 2012 show to please the turtle community, young and old!
I won't deny that the 1987 TV series started out with a few half-decent episodes. Maybe...as much as 5 of them, at first. But Peter Laird said, in practice, that they were shut out of creative control fairly quickly, and their ideas were stopped being taken seriously. Laird soon lost all interest in the series, and he and Fred Wolf even went to court against each other once, and Laird still is not liberty to discuss the details of that lawsuit.
But if you get a chance to read Mirage TMNT comics, you'll come to notice that it gets very, very, very different from any of the cartoons. Each of the comics labels and each of the cartoons follow their own separate continuities, and for the large part set their own tone as well. Mirage TMNT started out a dark parody of other comics, but eventually became more of a drama combining alternating action-adventure with more peaceful slice-of-life elements. There were still some comic relief or parody elements (especially in shorter backup mini-comics), but the primary narrative took a serious path and largely stuck to it. It also let its characters age normally, and by Volume 4, the four characters were in their 30s and the title was changed to simply the initials "TMNT".
To be honest, the 2012 TV series did initially have much for older audiences as well as younger ones. But there's always been a sort of split between adult TMNT fans who like TMNT for adult reasons and gravitate towards Mirage and IDW (and to a lesser extent to the 2003 series which Peter Laird was more directly involved in), and adult TMNT fans who mainly see TMNT as an outgrowth of their childhood because they grew up first and foremost with the 1987 TV series. Sometimes these kinds of fans get along well. And sometimes they...really don't, as sometimes it seems like they have too little in common, and can't agree on what TMNT fundamentally is or should be. (You may see that a lot in my discussions in other threads here at Turtlepedia.)
I generally don't like the 1987 TV series, but I do respect some of its byproducts, like the Archie TMNT comics, especially as they matured with the aging of their audience in a way the 1987 series itself resisted more strongly. And surely, there are fans who like both the adult and the kid-friendly approaches, our wiki's administrator The S being an example. But most of my own longtime TMNT fan friends, including my two older brothers in their 40s, are pretty much only fans of TMNT when appeals strongly to adults, and lose interest when it appeals mostly to children. And many of them did find potential in the 2012 series at first, but soon lost interest by the second or third seasons as it started shedding Mirage appeal elements in favor of the 1987 appeal elements and became more obviously merchandise-driven. I liked the first two seasons of the 2012 series, and my favorite episode is "Slash and Destroy," but I stopped enjoying the show during season 3, and was eventually completely turned off the show by season 4. Still, I was glued for a time, and I've produced over 1000 animated GIFs from the 2012 series for Turtlepedia.
Today, the primary franchise vehicle chiefly for Mirage-style adult TMNT fans is the IDW TMNT comics series, which combines appeal of both the Mirage comics and certain select elements of the 1987 and 2003 series to tell its story, though under a rather short leash from Viacom which limits certain freedom of character and plot development that Mirage never had. Whereas Mirage eventually gave the central characters some pretty drastic character development, it's been said that the most interesting IDW characters are actually the supporting characters like Old Hob, who can sometimes be seen as surrogates for how writers wished they could develop main characters (like Raphael) in ways Viacom ultimately wouldn't allow. The IDW comics also involve Kevin Eastman but not Peter Laird, whereas the later Mirage comics involve Peter Laird but not Kevin Eastman, and the differences between their respective visions becomes clearer. The Mirage comics series has been on indefinite hiatus since soon after Laird sold the property to Viacom in 2009 (the last regular issues of Tales of the TMNT published in 2010), though he still has certain freedom to continue the series if he still wants to—he just hasn't yet. The last new issue of Mirage TMNT was published for free online as JPEG image files on Laird's blog in 2014, but those pages were actually drawn a few years before and sat on a shelf gathering dust until then.
But whereas Mirage was the principle adult TMNT comic and IDW is another adult vision under Viacom's supervision, the one comic series that some of my fan friends respect the most, is Mutant Ninja Turtles Gaiden, which was never a licensed comic at all, but technically a fan webcomic. Still, it's been publishing continuously for over a decade now with hundreds of pages under its belt (longer than some licensed TMNT comics volumes), and now has a whole fandom of its own, and some of its memorable scenes even ended up mysteriously appearing recreated in licensed works. It's also much, much darker than even Mirage or IDW, with many deep psychological drama elements. My friends tend to prefer this because it's not just fascinating but in some ways more realistic, as it would have always been hard to live a life being raised as deadly assassins without lots of associated trauma and baggage, and MNT Gaiden is very good at showing what it might be like if the four turtles had grown up to become extremely dysfunctional 34-year-old adults, but in relation to a younger generation of 16-year-old humans and turtle who don't have nearly as much baggage but in some ways even more on their plate than the four brothers did when they were still teenagers. MNT Gaiden is certainly a more brutal deconstruction of this, but even Mirage TMNT has its turtles accumulating a certain amount of psychological baggage as they age, as all adults do but ninja adults almost certainly would. They tell a good story, though, and you can love turtles even when they are deeply-flawed people who don't always do the right thing.
I wish I knew a relatively easy way of helping you access the Mirage and IDW comics. MNT Gaiden is free, but comic books, of course, cost money, and aren't even always in circulation or easily found pre-owned. There are, however, trade paperbacks (TPB) that collect several issues into a larger volume, and many readers prefer to buy these periodically instead of going for issue after issue, especially with how scarce comic book stores have become. IDW has been authorized to reprint much (but not all) of Mirage TMNT volumes 1 and 2 along with Tales of the TMNT, but only Mirage may reprint volume 4 for now. Volume 3 is a strange creature—that's actually Image TMNT, which was initially the official canonical continuation of Mirage TMNT after volume 2 ended. But it wasn't written by Kevin Eastman or Peter Laird, and later Laird (Eastman having already left Mirage) rejected its continuity entirely, and volume 4 completely disregards volume 3 as if it never happened.
Another issue is that, some people prefer the Mirage comics to be in black and white (for stark storytelling effect), but most of the IDW-published reprints of Mirage TMNT have been colorized. If a reader doesn't have a major emotional attachment to black and white comics, it may be no big deal, but it should be understood that most of the Mirage TMNT comics originally had no color within their pages, even if most of them had color cover art. The four turtles, which have no immediately obvious physical differences (more or less identical quadruplets), were mostly told apart by their personalities and by the distinct equipment on their belts, and (for a brief time during volume 4) by temporary tattoo symbols on their plastrons.
I knew that trade paperbacks thats mostly what I was asking for thats one of the reasons why I did not want to deal with the Mirage Licencing/Publishing eBay listings! And Kevin seems to like all the incarnations of the shows and Comics including the 2012 show! He also fell in love with a character that Viacom put into the show called "Ice Cream Kitty"! Also if you ever take a look at his office he has all the possible turtle merch so clearly he is a major shellhead and still cares about hist turtles even if he no longer has full control over it like the partners did in the past when they created the comics! And IK you don't care that much about the 2012 series, but it seems season 5 (The final season) may be pretty good cause they add 4 characters fans have wanted for awile I don't know if the comic fans like you are into the idea of seeing the turtles as children! You also stated that MNT Gaiden is not licenced by Viacom, and so long as they are not making any sort of monitary value from the turtle name or characters without express permission from Viacom it is consitered a parody even if they are using the ORIGINAL TMNT name or characters! And I doubt Viacom wanted to make it more like the comics, but then if they made it that dark they would not be able to air the show anywhere on the nickelodeon network! However if the shows are a problem for you make your own so long as your not making money under the name you are protected under US Parody laws! Then you could make them as potentially as dark as you want the only thing you would need at least minor permissions for is if you wanted to use original sound files, however, if you use your own sound and modify the visual media it should be protected under US Parody laws!
Kevin Eastman has stated he wants to work with Liard again in IDW, but IDK why they have not been able to work together yet or even if they wanted to!
I love the shows, but its only fair for this shellhead to know more about the ORIGINAL Mirage TMNT universes! Also if the Comics where as dark as they are why did kids read them one of the voice actors for the current show "Seth Green" who plays Leonardo, grew up with the original Mirage Comics and was a major shellhead since! Even the voice cast ofthe new show including Rob Paulson watch the new show cause they had kids who liked both the original series and/or the new series and they started watching the show themselfs! Sean Astin the voice of Raphael in the current series said he had Donatello pajamas when he was younger, and he said he still had them! So clearly there are people who LOVE ALL TMNT universes and incarnations its just cause the franchise itself is so iconic and each incarnation whether its a comic or show incarnation are all uniqe in their own way anyway! They all may have some core points from the Mirage Comics, but for a franchise that is as big as the TMNT franchise things are going to be moved around not only to fit modern times, but to try to appeal to everybody and to a point IDW would be different from IDW cause it would be trying to meet with the modern times!
And the fact that the franchise has a large divercity as the TMNT franchise is acctually a good thing cause it keeps a franchise alive, it just has to do mostly because of times or opinions, or favorites thats why franchises have fandoms its cause it trys to appeal to ALL groups not just one specified group!
Well, yeah, I guess that the diversity being good can certainly be true at times. Some influences from less favorite stuff can make a good appearance in stuff I like better, such as how Bebop and Rocksteady are much better in their Archie and IDW versions than they are in the 1987 series; I never might have considered them remotely Mirage-worthy characters until stories like Bebop & Rocksteady Destroy Everything. But even if there are people who like it all, like Kevin Eastman, there are those who only like some of it, like Peter Laird. It's not always easy to like all TMNT stuff unconditionally—some TMNT stuff does not seem enjoyable at all. Some people gravitate to certain aspects of TMNT, and are irritated by others. That kind of difference can generate friction between different kinds of fans. So for the sake of maintaining a peace, I don't want to argue about the merits or flaws of the 1987 TV series, because ultimately it just boils down to what people like or don't like, and that's not really a debate.
I spoke to you because I honestly don't know many people on this wiki at all who have any useful working knowledge of the various comics. (It's not like you can flip on cable or satellite TV and watch obscure comics like you can with TV series.) And since you are the age you are, you might have actually been in a position to have read those comics in the past, though it appears you mostly haven't. But I can still certainly recommend comics.
And yes, MNT Gaiden is completely non-commercial. Not even so much as a commercial portfolio or T-shirt. It's how the series has been able to survive all these years without lawyers chasing after it. The same legal status also shields other fanworks like Myrling's Hindsight and Sophie Campbell's Secrets of the Ooze (though Campbell has also worked on both Mirage TMNT and IDW TMNT in an official capacity).
Would I classify as one of the Liard types since I hate the 2003 series and all the movies made in the 2000s (except the 2007)? And one of the reasons I never read the comics as a kid is cause I came from a poor & abusive family so we rarely had nice shit for very long, and because I did not know the comics even existed in 2005-2009 I could not have gotten them its hard to keep up with anything when you are suppressed so much as a child! (Currently 19 if you did not know, but I assume you did.)
And technically MNT Gaiden can sell merch so long as its not using anything that is directly OWNED by Viacom if they use TMNT characters on merch if it is drawn or a version of a turtle not currently owned by Viacom, however, if you use any original content owned by somebody then you can be flagged for copyright! You can also receive donations for a parody or fan-based project without receiving copyright claim either! (Yeah US Copyright law is weird!)
Well, like I've been saying for a long time now—the TMNT fan who likes all TMNT stuff unconditionally is a rare creature.
And I didn't realize you were 19. I thought you were 7 when you saw the 1987 series—OH, you mean you were that age when you watched the 1987 series, but not in 1987? Huge misunderstanding. XD I actually was 7 in 1987, and developed an interest in TMNT comics as a teenager.
When I say "older TMNT fan," I mean people in their 30s, 40s, 50s. 19 is still quite young. :)
All right. There is a limited way you can read most of the first several issues of Mirage TMNT volume 1. It skips some issues though. The first issue is here at Turtlepedia, and a few other issues are at the Mirage Group site, shown page at a time.
First off you would suck at grammer if you failed high-school english classes 2-3 times, its amazing I graduated even though I falied english so many times! And yes I did mean I was 7 in 2003 and that is when I saw both series for the first time. (I saw the '87 first before the 2003.) What did you think I was 30 something? HAHAHA LOL! When I said I did not know any older TMNT fans I meant anybody older then me that likes TMNT now that you finally understand my age I think you can understand alot more about me, and what I truely meant in the first place with my previous messages.
Thanks for the links to the Mirage issues online next time i'm bored I will read them as I want to know more about the ORIGINAL Mirage TMNT universe, because for some reason the internet does not do it justice!
And just to clarify if your 37, then you would have been around in 1987 when the first show and Mirage Comics where popular, Me on the other hand I did not grow up in '87 I was born in '97 10 years after the original show aired on TV, but just cause I was not alive in the 1980's did not mean it was going to be impossible to find the show just the comics since Mirage had already stopped writing by the time I was 7 years of age, but the shows/movies never technicly stopped so it was easier to find the original espesially on a channel that owned a licence to air the 2003 series for a while! (4Kids/CW4Kids)
Also you don't need to read this this is just MORE clarification! In 2003 i was 7 at the time that is when I first saw the 1987 & the 2003 series. My tramatic and chaotic childhood technically started at that time aswell, but it was not as bad. In 2012 I was a freshman in highschool that is when the 2012 series started to air on Nickelodeon, and by that time I did not even know the comics where even a thing. I did not find out until AFTER I graduated when I started getting caught up on the 2012 series is when I was acctually able to research more on the franchise that was around the time I found that the comics acctually existed. And since then now I can't get anything TMNT out of my head, its like a drug! LOL!
Enjoy your comics. I hope you find a way to locate the others. Don't be surprised if the Mirage and 2003 stories are highly similar—the 2003 series started as an attempt to adapt the Mirage continuity's volume 1 stories to a younger audience, but it has many, many differences and went on to be a very different story overall. I appreciate what Peter Laird was trying to do with the 2003 series, but the Mirage series was never for children, nor really should it have been. Mirage is for adults, though since you're a different generation, you should keep in mind that the adults at the time were mainly Generation X (though the adult readers during the Mirage continuity's volume 4 included many Millennials). I'm one of the youngest members of Generation X (I'm 36—I turn 37 this month), but two of my older brothers were certainly reading it. And I've been reminded recently that the culture of Generation X had a lot of differences from the culture of later generations.
As for the original four turtles themselves? They were born in 1970. That would make them closer to 47 today if they were real.
Hopefully I will enjoy the Mirage Comics, I also want to get back into the 2003 series (Eventually, Hopefully not anytime soon!) just so I can have more respect for the franchise as a whole! Even if I don't read the Comics it was still enjoyable talking to you about the original TMNT universe! (I can't really think of much else to say! :P)
Yes, almost all black and white. The cover art was usually in color though, and some of these images are from colorized reprints, but the original comic was in black and white. I prefer pure greyscale in my Mirage TMNT comics, but I take what I can get.
That first colorized image (with Raphael and Klunk) was originally black and white.
That violent scene with all the black bars (which I digitally added because otherwise it would be too graphic to allow on Turtlepedia) was from Kevin Eastman's comic miniseries Bodycount, which though published by Image Comics (who created the associated Image TMNT), is Mirage canon because Kevin wrote it for the Mirage TMNT continuity. (It also shows what Kevin's style is like when he doesn't have Peter Laird or Tom Waltz or Viacom's edicts to counterbalance him—he does comics far more adult than most of Mirage TMNT ever is, such as Heavy Metal.) Bodycount was among the few Mirage TMNT comics that was always originally in color.
That third color image (with Splinter and the human) is a colorized version of a comic that was originally black and white.
That fourth color image is a comic cover art, and most of Mirage TMNT's cover art was still in color, even if the pages within were black and white. Remember, black and white has always been a stylistic choice.
All of volume 2 was in color, but that was only 13 issues long. (Interestingly, when IDW reprinted volume 2 more recently, all the colors appeared different, as if they recolored black and white master copies that have themselves never been published.) Bodycount was also in color, as was Richard Corben's Turtles Take Time (which is what the more recently-made animated short Turtles Take Time (and Space) was based on). Stan Sakai's original crossovers of Usagi Yojimbo with TMNT were also mostly in color, I think. I can't remember off-hand if any of the Tales of the TMNT were in color.
I did not realize there was original issues in color. Also I thought you said you hated the 2012 turtles? The turtles in the animated short "Turtles Take Time (and Space)" are based off the 2012 turtles, even one of the turtles in that short was voiced by one of the current turtles voice actors! (Greg Cipes who voiced Michelangelo voiced the same character in the short! All the other charactes had different voices!)
I also got bored a while ago and started reading the first issue from the link you gave me! And just as a PRECAUTION is there going to be any "ADULT-BASED" scenes in the comics or is it mostly just adult violence?
Actually, I loved the first two seasons of the 2012 TV series. And I've constructed more than 1000 GIFs from that series for Turtlepedia. The writing, character depth, subtlety, etc. was relatively better than it is now. Season 1 was best, while season 2 wasn't quite as good overall but had a few of the best episodes in the series. Season 3 was a steep decline in likability for me, and season 4 was just plain unwatchable. For me, it's not just enough for TMNT to be action or comedy. The characters have to have a certain minimum realistic depth to them, and their personality, dialogue and motivations can't be too wooden. My joke after season 3 was that it was Splinter who was murdered, but it was everyone else who died on screen, because they'd become such one-dimensional caricatures compared to what they started out as.
As for MNT Gaiden, the mature content is mostly violence, strong language and disturbing themes and some gore. I mean, it's not as graphic as Bodycount, but then I don't really don't like violence for its own sake anyway. But when violence is handled in a relatively mature way as part of a wider story, I find it more acceptable. They are ninja, after all, and a life of ninjutsu is inherently prone to violence and death.
Ok... I forgot about what you said about the first two seasons! Now don't get me wrong I love the 2012 series and usualy go out of my way to defend it, but in my opionion writing has been just a little lax they could have spent more time writing! (I mean seriously either one of us could have done better!) Hopefully the 5 season will make up for all that crap writing!
After season 2 of the 2012 series the voice actor of Leonardo had to be switched because of a political scandle between the previous voice actor "Jason Biggs" and some lady in politics! Nickelodeon wanted NOTHING to do with his sexist tweets he made to a lady in politics so they fired him from the position and hired "Seth Green"! Now I don't have anything against "Seth Green" or Leonardo's NEW voice I just remember complaining when the voices where switched and they gave a lousy reason why in the begining of the third season! Now the voice problem does not bother me as much, but I still have a feeling sometimes that Leonardo is not the same, but we can't blame Nickelodeon for fireing Jason for the mess he put them in!
Season 3 was probally the ONLY season I hated (Except for the episode(s) "Turtles in Time " and "Tale of the Yokai ") otherwise season 3 just seemed a little boring to me! One of my theories have been about season 3 was that Nickelodeon cared far too much about what Jason did then they cared about TMNT at the time, which is probably why season 3 sucked so bad as they probably had to change the entire storyline because of the voice change!
In season 4 I started liking it again, however, there where some episodes in season 4 I liked more then others there were some that just annoyed me! My favorite episode of season 4 has got to be "Trans-Dimensional Turtles" and my least favorite would have to be "Journey to the Center of Mikey's Mind"! Yeah that was a good episode, but part of me feels it was unneeded and did not fit with the storyline! Then after "Earth's Last Stand" I feel like the remainder of season 4 went down hill from there! I just hope the newest season, season 5, will make up for season 3 and the second half of season 4! One of the reasons why I am hoping season 5 will be better is because Nickelodeon/Viacom added 4 characters the fan base has wanted for a while (Baby Turtles), so hopefully the turtle boys can make up for it in this season!
I must have gotten MNT Gaiden confused with Mirage for a little there it was 3:00 maybe 4:00 in the morning when I replied to you! Plus violence is only good if it fits the theme or story the author is trying to tell. Any over-violence can get really annoying really fast!
BTW Do you know what was up with Michelangelo and his odd underwear obsession? (you need to rewatch the first two seasons to spot that!) Because to be honest that made me uncomfortable a little!
I have noticed I have been using (!) just a little TOO much I will try to cut down on the excessive use of exclamation marks!
I honestly don't think the whole Jason Biggs / Dominic Catrambone / Seth Green thing had any real impact on the writing. They're just voice actors, and the characters themselves could be voiced by just about anyone, and the story is decent if the writing, direction and delivery are decent. I don't fault Seth Green for any of this.
Interestingly enough, until season 4, "Turtles in Time" was the episode I hated most. I have a strong dislike of fast, easy, shallow romance plots, especially after everything that Mikey went through with Leatherhead. But the Amazing Adventures comics ended up handling Mikey and Renet better, which made me feel a little less queasy about the two of them. In season 4, I loathed the space arc. I mean, there have been good space arcs in different versions of TMNT over the decades (such as the one in Mirage TMNT), but the 2012 series' space arc was just plain awful, full of plot holes, cheap pandering and so forth. That's actually when I stopped watching the series altogether.
I have seen tons of speculative fanart of the Turtle Tots in their 2012 series incarnations. There's a collection of it here, which also includes non-2012-series versions. Mirage TMNT issue #9 (included in my list of links earlier) is also a backstory of them as preteens. Even MNT Gaiden has a brief flashback of them as preteens.
If you're wondering what makes Mirage TMNT so mature, then the answer to that is mainly Bodycount, because it forms a part of Mirage TMNT canon, and it is extreme over-the-top graphic violence. But overall, I'd estimate that Mirage TMNT is more often PG-13 with a few R-rated moments. But it's most important to stress that Mirage TMNT was always fundamentally unrated, in that the target audience have always been adults anyway, so whatever content was present was within the sensibilities of its creators. Still, when writing about Mirage TMNT on Turtlepedia, it would be improper to censor our text in a way the comics do not, so the articles have a mature content warning for the benefit of concerned parents.
Mikey's interest in Tytee Wytees was silly, for sure, but you also have to remember that these are turtles who have never worn underwear for the purpose of wearing underwear. They're effectively naked, except for Splinter who in season 3 is shown to wear underwear under his robe. Human underwear may be more of a novelty to Mikey—something fascinating to collect, just like comics or action figures or that giant cardboard cutout of Chris Bradford he still kept in his room even after they became sworn enemies. 2012 Mikey is an unusual individual, to say the least. I also thought his character development suffered tremendously in season 3, though.
First I was never blaming the voice actors, its just when you change a characters voice in a show and want to have a reason for it you need to change the story. Sometimes it can disrupt the flow of the storyline when writing excuses like that.Besides most of season 3 seemed to be filler that did not really fit with the story that much, like what was with that Bigfoot episode, it did not fit with the story season 3 was trying to tell! I also never said I blamed Seth Green, mostly just the writing because of the voice change!
I was acctually so annoyed by season 3 for a while that I was planning on no longer watching TMNT(2012), however, the space arc changed that for me. Minus all the plotholes (Which I rarely noticed, and if I did it was not that hard to fill them in!) it was a farely good arc, probably because I was mostly paying attention to the fugitoids voice before learning he was voiced by David Tennant. I think the storyline was farly strong it made sense why they did most of the stuff in the episodes. Mostly the only thing in the space arc that annoyed me was the turtles space suits, through out most of the turtles space suits their skin is exposed to space. If this was reality they would not be able to use their limbs and after a few minues the pressure would crush their legs or even if their chests where showing the pressure in space would compress onto their chest forcing all air in their lungs it could also cause the heart so slow so even if you where able to still breath not very much O2 would make it to the important parts of their body, even turtles need air!
I understand there is fanart of the "Turtle Tots", but from what I could tell most of the drawings where not 3D/CGI. Most of the fans of the series wanted "Turtles Tots" to physically be intigrated into the show as characters and not just mentioned by splinter or the turtles or seen in any pictures. So (from what I can tell) Viacom had an episode (or more) for the "Turtle Tots" to explain more about the turtles past as children. It could be what gives the 2012 series its spark again. I'm sure Viacom knows the popularity of the last two season went down hill and you can see that in the ratings! TMNT(2012) Season Episode List & Viewcounts(Ratings) so i'm sure they know about the writing issues and plotholes, and don't want to make that mistake again.
Its not Mikey's obsession with the underwear itself thats desterbing its that fact that they are filthy and have countless pizza stains and who knows what else. I beleive I remember hearing somewhere in one of the first seasons (possibly even the third) that Mikey more then likely found them dirty anyway and the fact that he does not clean it is what creeps me out! I could careless if he wore the underwear its just gross to look at it with it as dirty as it is!
Well, one thing you have to remember about Mikey and his entire family, is that they live in the sewers. They're used to dealing with things, at least outside their home, that aren't very clean. Mikey's collection of dirty underwear is a bit of cringe comedy, but his fascination with underwear at all is perfectly understandable. And keep in mind that in that same episode, Mikey and Raph ate pizza that had been lying on the floor of Mikey's already squalid bedroom for three or four days, and they were soon both visibly high, as if taking drugs; who knows what kind of mind-altering fungus had been growing on it during that time.
Notice their constant smiles and their noticeably more dilated pupils.
Mikey's bedroom scene (including the clutter, the underwear and the drug trip pizza) was all part of a sight gag making it clear how much of a slob he is. Was it funny? Eh, bits and pieces. But that's cringe comedy for you.
Like I've been trying to say, I don't like violence or drama for their own sake detached from story context. I just don't like TMNT to be bowdlerized for children. Let the characters be fairly honest, acceptably realistic, and relatable to adult audiences, and real to the roles they live (in this case, ninja) and actually allowed to age and mature over time just like real people do. What I really want are more good stories that don't assume that I'm 7 years old or that I'm 37-going-on-7 as if I'll never grow up. (Granted, these audiences buy the most profitable toys, which is why showrunners have an incentive to keep focusing only on this audience over time. See: "Merchandise-Driven." But it tends to result in really stagnant TMNT that hardly anyone older than 12 can take seriously.) With my interest in TMNT, I'm not trying to relive my childhood—I'm enjoying adult comics. The first two seasons of the 2012 series were an anomaly in that there was much to appreciate as an adult for the same reasons I appreciate Mirage TMNT. But come season 3, that came to an end.
If Viacom was willing to make an Adult-Based TMNT and put it on comedy central would you watch that? Because just get fans to want it and Viacom will try to make it a reality, cause like I said before yes they want to make it suitible for younger audiences, but they also don't want to lose the original turtle fans, wether it be the comic fans, or fans of the original series! So I would assume if fans wanted it enough it can be made into a reality! If I was working with Viacom I would talk to them, but sadly I don't so the only thing you could do (if you wanted) is have Viacom make another series just for adults even if fans wanted the 2012 character models they would go with it. Viacom is interested in making money off the show, but they have come to learn just like any other entertainment company that eventually you have to do what the fans want cause they essentially are what give you your money so most companies usually try their best to go out of their way for fans.
Also if I remember I don't think Raph would take a bite of that "OLD" pizza I could just imagine him saying "Thats Disgusting!", eating old pizza sounds like a Mikey thing and there is evidence in the show that he will eat just about anything, where his brothers on the other hand RARELY will not. (Mostly cause they ate stuff like Algae growing up! If you ate the same thing your entire life only to be introduced to good stuff would you want to go back?)
Well, I don't think a TV-budget TMNT series for adults is likely to materialize unless they can make a profit from it. The adult comics have had some really good storywriting in them, but they were always done on a low budget, and never made a huge profit—they were basically independent comics that outgrew their humble roots as a fluke. But even then, I'd be hesitant against pigeon-holing TMNT as a comedy. So instead of Comedy Central, I'd think maybe CBS or The CW or TeenNick or maybe even Spike (but not being just for male audiences). Or even Netflix or some other online streaming platform. Adult TMNT is only occasionally comedy, just like it's occasionally action, occasionally drama, occasionally sci-fi, occasionally slow-paced slice-of-life, etc.
And remember that the pizza appeared relatively ordinary. (I'm taking a moment to reference the episode right now.) Raph didn't question where the pizza came from—he started nibbling on it even as he started using it to try to lure out the Squirrelanoid. It was only after they'd already been eating it that Mikey revealed what it was and how long it'd been lying around. So yes, Raph ate the half-week-old drug trip pizza too.
I originally said Comedy Central because that was the first Viacom network that came to mind. Plus Viacom does not own CBS if it was to air on CBS, CBS would need some kind of permission from Viacom. The best bet would probably be Spike or TeenNick cause both of those channels/networks are owned by Viacom.
That or maybe it could be a series Nickelodeon does on YouTube. Netflix has not gotten along with Viacom for about 3-4 years now thats why on Netflix you will NOT find anything that is or was owned by Viacom, Netflix tried to control all of Viacom's content on the Netflix website and Viacom said "No, Content is king!" and basicly FORBID Netflix from being able to stream any of their content on the Netflix website. I don't even know if you can find DVD's of Viacom shows on Netflix either. I don't even think you can find Paramount movies on Netflix since Paramount is owned by Viacom!
Also I did not remember the pizza thing I guess I should re-watch the entire show huh, it would be fun... up until season 3 anyway then I will probably be board. Then once I get into season 4 I will enjoy it up until "City at War (2012 TV series episode) ", but by then I would have seen all the COOL episodes in every season.
The 2012 episode "City at War" was that bad? The funny thing is, Mirage TMNT's City at War story arc is usually considered the best story arc Mirage ever put out. It was 13 issues long, coming at the very end of Mirage TMNT volume 1 in 1992-1993. It also had the first ever appearance of Karai, though she's different in lots of ways from the 2012 series version.
I don't think its that bad I just think that at that episode is when season 4 starts to go down hill. Plus what I may think is bad and you may see it as good. We did the same thing with the 2012 space arc I thought it was good you thought it was bad. I mean you could give the City At War arc a try if you want, but that would mean you would have to watch an episode (or more) of the fourth season. and last time I checked the fourth season was not that entertaining for you. It is entirely possible you never saw the second half of the fourth season which comes after the space arc. The space arc ended with "Earth's Last Stand", the second half of the fourth season I would assume is the City At War arc and it starts with "City at War (2012 TV series episode) ".
And I didn't say I thought the 2012 series episode "City at War" as good, as I've never seen it. I said the 1992-1993 Mirage TMNT arc City at War (which the 2012 series episode was named after) was one of the best.
Yeah I misread the message, I thought you where asking about City At War, but you where more or less stating how bad it was without acctually asking about it. And about the Mirage Comics City At War arc I cannot really agree yet since I have not read that far into the comics as I just started the other day, but for now I will take your word on it.
Unfortunately, Mirage's City at War isn't in that list of links I gave you. They're only links to comics you can read for free online. City at War came later and is not free online, but IDW has reprinted it (albeit colorized).
It may be possible to find old Mirage comics too, if you search the right places (online or offline). Personally, I always prefer the black and white versions when the original was black and white and I have a choice in the matter.
Besides ebay and possibly amazon the only other place to find any of the old Mirage comics would be book stores or Novelty comic shops or maybe even try to find Trade Paper Back with the City At War arc. Once I get that far with the comics I will try to look for the MIRAGE City At War arc either original or Trade Paperback otherwise I may have to find any of the IDW versions!
Oh, try not to skip ahead in volume 1. You should read the rest of volume 1 before City at War, in order, before reading City at War itself. City at War depends a great deal on layered character development from earlier in volume 1 of the existing seven main characters, and also marks a major turning point in Mirage TMNT storytelling that would influence all later stories.
And don't trip too badly over volume 1's Guest Era, which is mostly non-canon and could vary wildly in style, since the writers of those issues were given free rein to do almost anything they wanted. That page of Splinter watching Speed Racer was from a non-canon Guest Era issue. (The person to ask what is and isn't Mirage TMNT canon used to be Peter Laird, and he still issues opinions about this when asked questions on his blog, but he stresses that now only Viacom has the legal right to decide what is or isn't Mirage canon now, even in stories published decades ago.)
No no no, i'm not saying i'm going to skip anything i was saying if I found any physical copies I would use thoes instead of the online versions when I get to them. And technically Peter is right they are the current copyright holders so they do have the power, but i'm sure Viacom does not want to piss anybody off so i'm sure they would tell you to ask Liard or Eastman, And if Liard does not want to answer goto the person who is still working in the franchise. (Eastman) Yeah i'm sure most of the comic fans would rather goto Liard, but if he is still butthurt about Viacom being in control of the franchise then maybe he should not have sold it to them in the first place. And as far as I can tell unlike Liard, Eastman is open and willing to answer questions, i'm sure he is the only person left who would know what is and is not cannon.
Actually, Peter has always maintained that selling to Viacom was the right thing to do. He's very politely deferential to Viacom's authority on these matters. He merely issues opinions. He has an annual Q&A on his blog, after all, and makes these things clear when asked.
Ok, makes sense. If he was always cool with selling the turtles to Viacom then thats fine. And yes Peter may respect Viacoms authority as the current copyright holder. Viacom respects their authority as the CREATORS so they may not own the copyrights anymore, but in Viacoms eyes the creators know more about the comics then Viacom does.
Also was Peter the original copyright owner for the turtles or did BOTH Peter and Kevin own the turtles equally?
Kevin and Peter were original owners. Kevin eventually surrendered his stake to Peter before Peter finally sold in 2009. Funny thing is, Peter's decision in 2009 came as a shock to everyone—he didn't consult anyone, even the people he worked with at Mirage. It jolted everyone and threw a lot of existing plans into disarray. Some projects that had already been in development had to be cancelled. He may be at peace with the decision, but there were still heavy consequences with the way he went about it.
So since Kevin surrendered his half of the rights to Peter before selling the turtles, he essentially got nothing from Peter selling the rights? Also what made Peter want to sell in the first place, and what made Peter decide to leave the franchise, and what made Kevin want to stay?
That is...probably more complicated than my informal understanding of the situation. I've read a few Ask PL posts on his TMNT blog. I think he also may have left some editorial notes in Tales of the TMNT towards the end of its publication run, but I can't remember for sure. (Those wouldn't necessarily appear in IDW reprints since those don't include the original editorial notes—just in Mirage first-run printings of Tales.) And I don't know much of Kevin Eastman's motives.
Its just interesting that one creator can decide to sell everything and leave while the other is still enjoying working with the franchise. I am still skimming through PL Blogs to see if maybe I could find an answer on why he decided to sell in the first place. Maybe if I see something on Kevins blog about asking him questions maybe I will ask why he decided to stay and Peter leave the franchise. It could be possible that Peter and Kevin got bored at that time and just decided to sell out of spite, but yet I get another feeling saying maybe Liard wanted to sell, but Eastman did not. It could also be possible that they just told all the stories they wanted to under the TMNT name, and sold cause maybe they felt somebody else could tell a much bigger & better story. I will continue searching both Peter's and Kevin's blog(s) and let you know if I find something that tells us why they sold, cause I am really curious to know why now!
I need your help, i deleted the list of episodes of the 2012 tmnt series, when i meant to delete a different spam page. I need your help, ive tried to restore/undelete it, but it wont let me, some kind of permission error. Too make matters worse my laptop is busted so im stuck on my terrible phone, and cant recreate/create any page properly.
You mean, you need to recreate the list from scratch? Well, here's the Wayback Machine's most recently archived copy, which is still over a year old, but can be a start as a visual reference for formatting. The rest is just retrieving the list of actual episodes and re-entering them. Or, perhaps, using another episode list from a different series (say the 2003 series) as a template.
I've entered some data in List of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012) episodes. It's far from complete, but it's a start towards recreating the page. I can't necessarily dedicate lots of time towards working on it right this instant, but maybe we all can work something out. The basic formatting is in place—all that's left is copy/pasting of formatting and entering more fields taken from their articles. The episode articles interlink each other sequentially, so it should be trivial.
Interesting question. There is no simple answer. My favorite turtles depend on the version of TMNT.
In Mirage TMNT, I don't necessarily have a favorite. But more often than not, I most like Raph, mainly after he grows up and becomes a more mature adult with responsibilities. But really, which characters I like most depends on the story and its particular writers.
Cool man! In Mirage Comics I like Mikey, In the 2012 TV show I Iike Leo and in the 2003 TV show, I like Raph. In MNT Gaiden.....I don't know! I don't read them because I doubt my parents would let me (with all the language and....um....stuff.). But yeah. My all time favorite turtle is LEO!!!
Ahh, I didn't realize you were a child. I'm not used to fellow TMNT fans being children. Most of the TMNT fans I know well are at least 30, and some in their 40s. So yes, if it's that much of an issue, you should probably wait and read MNT Gaiden when you're a little older. Technically, Mirage is also for adults, though the age-appropriateness of its comics has fluctuated between PG-13 and a hard adult rating (mostly for violence). But the newer IDW TMNT comics are reliably PG-13.
Cool!! Although i'm not realy a child...Okay maybe a little...But I'll be 15 this year (But everyone says I act like I'm 12, probably because I'm so carzy for TMNT.) . Also I LOVE the mirage comics (Even though there are some I don't think i should read yet, so I don't read those.) And I also got my first IDW TMNT comic a few days ago at vintage stock (And a Deadpool comic that I was actually aloud to read!) The comic was #25. I picked it out because it had dark leo! How many tmnt comics do you have? and also, do you have a favorite tmnt comic series?
I have almost all of the Mirage comics, almost all of the Image comics and almost all of the IDW comics, and all the Palladium RPG books. And most of the Archie comics, but I haven't read those very deeply (some of them haven't aged well either). But my favorite series would have to be Mirage, followed by MNT Gaiden. The IDW comic is usually good, but Viacom keeps IDW on a leash, and doesn't allow IDW to give the four turtles much of any character development, keeping their personalities rather stagnant (meaning most of the real character development goes to supporting characters like Old Hob or Lindsey Baker). Mirage and MNTG both develop characters in significant ways, though it took Mirage a long time to get that particular ball rolling, especially with characters like Mikey.