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  • This is an outrage. I can't believe Ciro and Brandon keep on hurting us Turtles fans by killing off Splinter! This marks the 3rd time that they have killed Splinter in the Nick series! They better find a way to revive Splinter.

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    • 3rd time? Splinter didn't die in the Season 2 Finale "The Invasion", when Shredder threw Splinter down the sewers, Serpent Karai saved him at the end of "The Invasion, Part 2." Now if Karai didn't save him, they yes, this would mark the 3rd time they've killed Splinter, but no. Splinter didn't die in the Season 2 Finale, but did die in "Annhilation: Earth!" and "Requiem"

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    • Yeah, thats true.

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    • I'm personally getting really sick and tired of it. Master Splinter is the best character in the whole damn show and he really keeps the turtles grounded and is the figure they need to keep them in line. Why do they have to keep killing him off? They tried at the beginning of the goddamn season and now that we're only nine or so episodes in they're apparently doing it for reals again. It's starting to become a bit of a joke: "How many times is Splinter going to die this season?"

      If they must "kill" off a character for a little while, I think it would be pretty dramatic and dynamic to have it be one of the turtles. They've had each of the turtles horribly injured true, but that only really happens for maybe one and a half episodes. Leo was comatose for small end of a episode and just barely past the beginning of the next one. They should try having them be sick, hurt for a longer or go missing for an extended period of time.

      Mikey could be kidnapped and taken to Dimension X (against his will or maybe was recruited by the Utrom)

      Raph could be flung back into space and reunited (and later returned) with Mona Lisa

      Leo could be taken by the Foot.

      Donnie could be taken by the government.

      There are just so many different ways they can go with it if they want to see some massive bits of drama. Break up the dream team for longer than ten minutes! Don't keep taking away the same goddamn character every single time! It's getting very old.

      Even April and Casey could be missing for a while. They don't need to be in every single episode, I'm sure they have something else to do, granted April is a now a full blown ninja...which still doesn't sit well with me...but don't they have school? Homework....a family member that is suffering from some pretty traumatic PTSD..Hockey practice...something?

      Why do we have to keep losing Splinter? I personally would love (and now he's "dead") more father/sons moments. They have him talk to Raph, Leo, Donnie and even April for god's sakes, but there was NOTHING with Mikey. Mikey was never given a father/son moment that I can remember, they only showed the other three having the heart to heart talks. Mikey needed some parental guidence too. In fact, as far as I can remember, the ones that had the most Mikey/Splinter moments were 89's version and 03's version. None of the movies had it, and now that Splinter is "dead" we're not going to get it. Mikey's going to forever be the odd turtle out

      Maybe the voice actor behind Splinter is having a bit of trouble with his contract...I don't know, but seriously...STOP KILLING OFF THE SAME CHARACTER!

      .

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    • LadyCelestialStar: Agreed, except for one thing: I think Mona Lisa needs to be erased from continuity altogether. XD

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    • Check out my video tribute of Splinter ://www.youtube.com/watch

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    • That's not a complete URL. Even assuming I could add "http" before it, it's missing a valid video ID at the end.

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    • I think they killed Splinter because they wanted a more intense season finale. All the finales are increasing in the intensity. But still...I mean, why not have Splinter kill Shredder because Shredder already killed Splinter in the Season 3 Finale.

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    • An intense season finale is all fine and the way it should be, but "killing" Splinter has been done, twice! To do it a third time is getting a bit repetitive. Why not have someone else take a bullet? Spice it a up a bit. 

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    • I know, I feel like killing Splinter off is too...ordinary, I guess you could say. They could just temporarily kill someone off like Leatherhead, Slash, or even Karai.

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    • I agree with Newyork9, to be honest, "Requiem" would be alot better if Karai had died. No offense to any of the Karai fans out there (and beilve me I'm one.) But let's just be honest, if Karai wouldn't had woke up when the Mutanimal's lair burned down, it would have been a little bit better and unexpected because Karai had never died, but Splinter has. 

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    • I kinda suspected earlier on when Splinter told the turtles that he wasn't going to be around forever, and that they can't expect anything, even family to last forever. (I'm still trying to remember what episode that was in. I'm pretty sure it was either "City At War" or "Broken Foot.")

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    • It was "Mutant Gangland" Splinter also said the same thing in "Requiem"

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    • Guyhoonsucks
      Guyhoonsucks removed this reply because:
      I want to get rid of the quote
      23:12, February 28, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Newyork9 wrote:
      I know, I feel like killing Splinter off is too...ordinary, I guess you could say. They could just temporarily kill someone off like Leatherhead, Slash, or even Karai.

      I agree. Maybe in the Mutanimal fire, they could make the turtles think that Karai died, then in season 5 she surprises them by returning

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    • MusicKing2003 wrote:
      I agree with Newyork9, to be honest, "Requiem" would be alot better if Karai had died. No offense to any of the Karai fans out there (and beilve me I'm one.) But let's just be honest, if Karai wouldn't had woke up when the Mutanimal's lair burned down, it would have been a little bit better and unexpected because Karai had never died, but Splinter has. 

      In Annihilation:Earth Karai died

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    • Guyhoonsucks wrote:
      MusicKing2003 wrote:
      I agree with Newyork9, to be honest, "Requiem" would be alot better if Karai had died. No offense to any of the Karai fans out there (and beilve me I'm one.) But let's just be honest, if Karai wouldn't had woke up when the Mutanimal's lair burned down, it would have been a little bit better and unexpected because Karai had never died, but Splinter has. 
      In Annihilation:Earth Karai died

      So did the rest of the planet, it doesn't fully count though as the entire planet was fixed later.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      LadyCelestialStar: Agreed, except for one thing: I think Mona Lisa needs to be erased from continuity altogether. XD

      Same! Again why in the world was she introduced to the series again besides serving the purpose of Raph's (ughhh) annoying betrayer love interest who makes him OOC?

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    • WildcatMDE1999 wrote:
      This is an outrage. I can't believe Ciro and Brandon keep on hurting us Turtles fans by killing off Splinter! This marks the 3rd time that they have killed Splinter in the Nick series! They better find a way to revive Splinter.

      Agreed! I'm still crying over his death! Like that was messed up! I swear this is THE WORST THING Nick has EVER done in TMNT. I'm half-expecting there to be a time reversal where Splinter will be revived and the turtles will be a family again :)

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    • Why does it always happen during the season finale? Like, I mean, couldn't the writers kill someone else off (maybe temporarily)? It was kind of expected he would die again.

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    • XHuna.Is.Lifexx wrote:

      Same! Again why in the world was she introduced to the series again besides serving the purpose of Raph's (ughhh) annoying betrayer love interest who makes him OOC?

      They were trying to give Raph the love interest the the rest of the turtles were gettting to experience. Since the arrival of Renet, it was now Raph that was the loner turtle. They brought back Mona Lisa from the '89 version because even though she was only on there for the briefest of time, she and Raph did seem to click quite well together. 

      I think Raph's OOC'ness was mostly due to finding someone who wasn't his brothers, April, Casey or Splinter that could really interact with him and his brothers and not try and kill them after getting to know a bit more about them. He and Fishface made quite the team, but they were still enemies. She's also a powerful fighter/warrior and that's how he percieves himself. He's the powerhouse of the turtles and anyone that stands in his way will get bowled over pretty quickly. But he couldn't quite bowl her over. 

      He most likely heard Donnie and Leo lament about what it was like for them to fall in love so many times that he threatened to bean them with their own weapons that he began to feel or experience the same feelings for Mona Lisa. That and most people lose their minds when they fall in love: Twitterpated. 

      Not a whole lot of other options for Raph to fall in love, and while it was tragic that Mona Lisa betrayed him, it wasn't a complete betrayal. She did/does have feelings for him and only did what she did because Lord Dregg had her entire planet under seige. It was either going to be the pain of losing her entire planet/culture/family/friends, or the loss of someone she loved. And as a warrior/soldier, she knew she had to choose her people over the turtles...over Raph.

      Now he has and will have some deep rooted issues regarding her, but he still cares for her quite a great deal and I think may forgive her for putting his brothers, friends and himself in danger if he hasn't done that already. But he will never forget, and that is something maybe Nick will have them work out when she comes back in the new season. 

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    • I think this show is following the "Two strikes and your out" rule to mortality, like half the cast from Beast Wars!

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    • If it makes you guys feel better, I'm also furious over Splinter's death!  We got him back half a season ago, and half a season later, you kill him again!?  It just comes off as Nick giving us the finger!

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    • I'm NOT furious though, it was foreshadowed early on during the Super-Shredder arc, and it was easy to accept. 

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    • LadyCelestialStar:

      The irritating thing is, Raph tripped gaydar extremely often during the first two seasons, such that for some (especially gay) viewers, it became really impossible to ignore. And Raph wasn't quite a stranger to love—he had Slash to pine over for most of season 2.

      But Raph's personality very noticeably changed during season 3—less catty, fewer "big sister" moments, much less gaydar-tripping in general, not as many good lines, more wooden dialogue in general, and even a less realistic motivation to anger—he went from being one of the most richly-developed characters, to one of the blandest. And in retrospect I think he was actually being drastically retooled specifically to satisfy the longstanding 1987 series fan demand for more Raphael and Mona Lisa, even if they shoehorned it on different versions of the characters in a newer series.

      It is because of these things that I consider Raph from the first two seasons to be a fundamentally different character from Raph in subsequent seasons. The later Raph was inexplicably new to love, not because his character development had evolved, but because he was actually a redesigned character.

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    • I really disagree on that for a lot of reasons. For one, in season 3 Raphael learned to control the fire with-in him, making him more stable and less passionate. As the show went on, he did this a little TOO well, such as when they went to the planet of the Aeons and showed the same kind of anger he had in the first 2 seasons, implying he's more repressing his feelings than dealign with them. AND in the latter half of season 4, when Raph comes face to face with his worst fear in giant bugs, he flashes back to not JUST the bug planet, but horrifying visions of Mona Lisa betraying him. Raph is ultimately the perfect example of over-training, in his case mental solidarity, where he controlled his emotions SO much, that they became volatile at the beginning.

      The more I read this, the more it feels like you just couldn't except change in the character at all, that you wanted him to stay the same forever. What you call character regression, I feel is character development. Also...have you ever considered you and your friends MAY be the minority in thinking Raph was gay? I go on several forums, its not the most common head-canon, and when it is its usually just in cutesy fan-art. I can see why you'd think that, but I really think it was unlikely that that was what they were going for. Not trying to say it couldn't be interpreted like that, but I feel its more than likely that he wasn't meant to be gay. 

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    • What I do know, is that for two seasons he was an entertaining, identifiable character on so many levels. And then, abruptly, he became dull and lifeless—hardly any fun at all. I once made a private collection of clips of "Best of Raphael"—50 minutes from season 1, 35 minutes from season 2, and...only 5 minutes from season 3. It's not my imagination—he became really, really bland. There are so many season 3 Raph scenes that are just painfully wooden to sit through. Raph used to have such zest that manifested in some form no matter how he was feeling, but that zest was just gone.

      As for the issue of intent, even many of my gay TMNT fan friends now think that it was probably something done in production but snuck under the higher-ups' radar for two years (that age-old trope Getting Crap Past the Radar, though I'd never consider gay people "crap"), and that the powers-at-be might not have given their approval to such a decisive direction in his character. And thinking about it, this would have been easy. Gay people are, after all, still largely invisible in mainstream all-ages entertainment, at best existing in a kind of limbo, a Schrodinger's plausible deniability. It's a nod and wink to receptive audiences, but avoids the alarm of parents who disapprove (and would then refuse to let their kids watch the show or buys its toys for them). Even with Korra at Nickelodeon, Bryke were forbidden from ever outright saying what was happening with Korra and Asami, only ever implying it, the point that when they did reveal that it had been going on for two whole seasons of that show, most of the clues were easily overlooked by the mainstream. And that fact that Korra's reveal came literally during the last scene of the last episode of the series, meant they waited until it was too late for disapproving parents to pull their kids away from it. Nickelodeon always has to consider issues associated with maintaining their market.

      Raph may not have been officially gay, but he was almost definitely "Schrodinger's gay." Tripping strong gaydar for two whole seasons, but plausibly deniable to disapproving parents. The fact that almost all these conspicuous cues abruptly dried up soon after season 3 began, seems to mean that either that effort stopped, or that the network radar they were sneaking it past finally noticed and made them stop.

      As for Mikey, I think he's just straight-up pansexual, with little explanation needed. There's already some tradition with versions of Michelangelo having a crush-of-the-season. When they finally brought Renet to Amazing Adventures and she and Mikey shared an adventure, I was impressed with the better-written distance they gave them. I mean, Mikey likes Renet, but unlike in the TV show, there was no immediately necessary romance and practically no touching. Which implies either that Mikey's primary interest had either moved on from her (but was still fond of her), or AA just has better writers that don't feel the need to push fast and easy romantic plot tumors between designated love interests but decides in a more nuanced way what their best chemistry should be.

      Though it now occurs to me...this particular topic has nothing to do with this thread's designated topic.

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    • Responding to last comment first oddly enough: Nah its cool, forum topics lose all meaning after a few posts.

      I dunno about that, I feel him being a better character oddly enough...MEANT he'd take to the sidelines. I know that sounds weird, let me explain. In the vast history of TMNT, Raph has a history of going insane, and hoggin the show. In THIS-they address his rage early on, and fights in a more calm manner. Sure he doesn't have the best lines in season 3, but others show up to take his place! Doesn't make the whole show bad though. And trust me, after watching "My Name is Earl" I KNOW about main-characters getting shamelessly shoved to the side-lines(poor poor Catalina).

      YEAH but Korra and TMNT-2K12 are two different shows. They weren't allowed to SAY it, but they were DAMN well allowed to imply it, first with the obvious romantic hand holding, than blushing, than an obvious kiss scene. TMNT-2K12's Raph on the other hand(unless confirmed by creators) is up for absolute interpretation. You gotta let it go man, your head-canon may not be canon.

      Oh thank god you brought up Renet without complaining about her, and yeah he TOTALLY is. Crocodiles, future-girls, witches, he'll get with anyone that likes him back!

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    • I told you: My head-canon isn't canon—it was Schrodinger's canon. If canon had an associated field of quantum mechanics, this is it. Now I view TV shows as having a slightly different canon from season to season, or even from episode to episode, because their fundamental canon can and does change over time and between different writers—that's part of what makes Retcon a thing. So, TV shows don't always have one overarching canon—they have a canon of right now, which isn't necessarily the same vision they had earlier on. Almost none of them plan and stick to an entire series' plot from beginning to finish in advance.

      The series Space Dandy deconstructed and parodied this to hilarious lengths, even very decisively killing off the main characters at the end of the very first episode, and having them alive in the next episode as if nothing had happened. Even the narrator at the end of the first episode said they'd be back next episode with no further explanation. Among the show's many nods to this, the (Japanese version) ending credits sequence alludes to quantum mechanics and parallel universes. And really, though that show blatantly made it a main feature, I think it's still true of almost every TV show simply because showrunners keep changing their minds, shows sometimes last longer than two seasons, and yet the target audience can't be reliably expected to remember anything that happened more than two years before. (How long was Space Dandy written to run? Two seasons. XD)

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    • You believe what you want, but I think its more than likely that it just wasn't meant to be man. Yeah writers have gone on record of stories that never were, Homer being secretly Krusty, Hal Jordan dating Wonder Woman, but almost NOTHING was given towards 2K12. Right now at least its not Schrodinger's Head-canon, its just head-canon.

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    • Well, it's also Nickelodeon we're talking about. With a lot of works where people involved in production give additional side-notes, the target audience is older. But with a merchandise-driven cartoon, where selling toys for a profit is the main fiscal priority, kids may have the power to decide they like it and want to watch it, but it's parents who have the power to object and forbid their kids from watching it. That puts the burden not in trying to please your own fans, but in trying to please guardians who may have no personal interest whatsoever in the product. So anything said in public while a show is still in production has to survive that test. That's why none of the more sensitive details behind the plot of The Legend of Korra could even be discussed until after at least several days after the show's finale aired. I suppose we can see what is revealed after season 5 and the 2K12 series comes to a close, but if they're really planning to reboot a new series as soon as possible, they'd be dealing with much of the same target audience and the same parents, so they might still refrain from doing that so as not to risk some parents' wrath against the new series and its merchandise. All that is, again, assuming there is something potentially sensitive to reveal. But it also means we may never know, at least in the foreseeable future.

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    • And with that, all we can do is guess and leave it as a head-canon.

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    • MusicKing2003 wrote:
      3rd time? Splinter didn't die in the Season 2 Finale "The Invasion", when Shredder threw Splinter down the sewers, Serpent Karai saved him at the end of "The Invasion, Part 2." Now if Karai didn't save him, they yes, this would mark the 3rd time they've killed Splinter, but no. Splinter didn't die in the Season 2 Finale, but did die in "Annhilation: Earth!" and "Requiem"


      Man calm down, you got so angry over a simple post. And yes, Splinter DID die in the season 2 finale, because since his spirit was disconnected from his body means that he was deceased for a short period of time.

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    • True, his spirit was disconnected from his body and set adrift, or else we wouldn't have had completely un-Splinter-like gems like this:

      Splinter licks the glass

      Either that, or we needed no longer wonder what Splinter would be like as a submissive who likes humiliation.

      ...Yeah, still decidedly un-Splinter-like.

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    • But really, I prefer the idea of Splinter sticking around long enough to know his grandchildren or great-grandchildren (adopted or otherwise).

      TMNT in general needs even more cross-generational dynamic spanning three generations instead of just two. That banter between Splinter and Raphael about the difficulty of raising children is always worth a smile. But it's not just characters like Shadow I'm thinking of, but also Leonardo's daughter Yumi from his vision of another life. Though it wasn't necessarily possible for Yumi and Splinter to directly interact, it's nice to think if Leo could have had that kind of daughter in this lifetime.

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    • But then we have stories like the new Superman comics, where Superman is raising his son Jon while his parents barely knew him growing up, only having the advice they gave him when they were alive. Old people don't live forever.

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    • No, they don't live forever. But they generally live long enough to be grandparents, which is why "grandparents" are a thing. 2K12 Splinter was only 58 or 59 when he died.

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    • And 3 of my Grandparents were dead when I was a kid. My grandma died when I was like 10. Not everyone gets a relationship with their parents parents, not every gets a nice relationship with their ancestors, only stories. 

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    • True. Though my grandmother died when I was 28ish. ...and then my mother when I was 32. While having grandparents isn't a guarantee, Mirage TMNT made it look so good.

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    • And with that, some stories are more relatable to people than others. I'd relate more to a story where the parental characters don't have their parental characters to help them out when needed, SOME however would not. Many different familial relationships to consider.

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    • The entire show begins with a pack of teenagers heading out on their own in the world for the first time, even if it's not a good idea. Splinter's death fits. And hell, Yoshi's death was the start of everything in the comics, so. It's thematically consistant at the very least. What do you do when you have only yourself to fall back on/blame becomes what do you do when you really do only have yourself to fall back on and no magic do over. 

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    • IDW SPOILERS BELOW

      I think IDW TMNT handled the transition between apprenticeship and independence better. In that, Hamato Yoshi / Splinter didn't dieOroku Saki was killed at Splinter's hand, and Splinter became the new jōnin of the Foot Clan with three of his four sons as chūnin. (Michelangelo refused to ever join the Foot Clan. He instead just wanted peace so they could live freely as a family, and felt betrayed by being expected to help run an entire ninja clan.) But eventually, Splinter's past life as a lifelong Foot Clan member caught up with them, and his cold summary execution of the already-disarmed Darius Dun deeply disturbed Splinter's sons by showing them that he could act just as ruthlessly and amorally as any gangster. (The sons had grown up mostly with just family rather than clan life, so they weren't prepared for these unsavory realities of ninja clan business.) The three remaining turtles promptly quit the Foot Clan and moved in with Mikey. But Splinter, still a genuinely loving father, gave his sons his blessing, conceding that perhaps he could not be their leader anymore; instead, he said that Leonardo was becoming the leader of a new separate clan, the Hamato Clan. Splinter would always be their father and the family could still visit together, and the two clans could request one another's aid, but those clans would remain separate, and for the most part the turtles would have to learn to live without their father always being around. This arrangement allowed the turtles to honor Splinter as their father and teacher (preserving that all-important Asian filial piety), while letting them respectfully disagree and not cooperate with his decisions, and also letting them learn to make life decisions on their own terms as adults.

      I found this approach interesting because it didn't turn Splinter into a sacrificial lion, but instead exposed everything he is—warts and all. In some ways it's easier to idealize a perfect parent who isn't around than it is to figure out how to keep having a relationship with a parent whose fatal flaws only become more apparent when you reach adulthood yourself. As a child, you have the luxury of thinking your parents know best, and will always be there to help you. But the reality is, even with relatively good parents, even they often don't know if what they're doing is right, and they may even admit that to their children. In some ways, going this route is better storytelling than portraying a perfectly idyllic happy family, because family with some real dysfunctions is more realistic and more relatable...at least if you're an adult. I guess, for Nickelodeon, if you're still as young as (TV-Y)7, they want you to keep idealizing your parents for at least a while longer (or long enough for your parents to keep approving of the TV show so they'll buy the associated toys Nick partially profits from), even if those parents happen to die before you finish growing up and actually get a chance to know them as an adult.

      IDW SPOILERS ABOVE

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    • What are you talking about, and who are you talking to?

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    • Trigger009
      Trigger009 removed this reply because:
      Insult
      02:48, May 11, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • O...kay. Carrying on, then. :)

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    • A FANDOM user
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